Welcome to the Titanfall 2 Forums. We have made a few adjustments to help eliminate spam and fake accounts. Starting today to participate in discussions, you must own Titanfall 2 and have a linked EA account. If you're having issues posting but do own the game, log out completely and clear your browser cache, cookies, and temp files, then restart the browser.

Arc Grenade

Katsuresu
8 postsPosts: 10
Don't know if it was just a miscommunication between whoever named the item and the designers behind it, or if someone just doesn't actually know what the word "stun" means, but the Arc Grenade doesn't stun in multiplayer. After throwing one onto a player entering a doorway, he immediately shot me to death.
Kill cam showed his screen becoming pixellated much like what happens to Titans hit by them. Unfortunately, pixellated and stunned are not the same, and trying to pass off a hazy screen as a stun is insulting and lazy. Whenever y'all can get around to changing the text on Arc Grenades or making them actually stun, I'll be looking forward to it.

Comments

  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    Ummm.... the Arc Grendade DOES stun you so I have zero clue what you're talking about. It prevents you from turning quickly, blurs your vision, and drops your speed, arbitrarily, by 90%. What it sounds like YOU did was stunned the guy and you were still right in FRONT of him which led you to being shot since he wasn't blind or disabled from shooting while being stunned. This is why logical decision making is important kids!
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Ummm.... the Arc Grendade DOES stun you... It prevents you from turning quickly, blurs your vision, and drops your speed, arbitrarily, by 90%... he wasn't blind or disabled from shooting while being stunned.

    Seeing that many posts I can only assume you play plenty of video games, so I don't understand why you're confused about this as well. By now you should know what the word stunned means, especially in a game. In no game I have ever known are stunned targets able to move around, much less take actions, and I'd love to see you find me one that had any sort of success where they can. What you're talking about is disoriented.
    How exactly do you reconcile the fact that in a single sentence you claim the Arc Grenade does stun and then immediately turn to say he isn't disabled? That's what a stun DOES.
    Titanfall 2 is not some gaming messiah that can justify the arrogance in trying to change what the word stun means, and neither are you.
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Ummm.... the Arc Grendade DOES stun you... It prevents you from turning quickly, blurs your vision, and drops your speed, arbitrarily, by 90%... he wasn't blind or disabled from shooting while being stunned.

    Seeing that many posts I can only assume you play plenty of video games, so I don't understand why you're confused about this as well. By now you should know what the word stunned means, especially in a game. In no game I have ever known are stunned targets able to move around, much less take actions, and I'd love to see you find me one that had any sort of success where they can. What you're talking about is disoriented.
    How exactly do you reconcile the fact that in a single sentence you claim the Arc Grenade does stun and then immediately turn to say he isn't disabled? That's what a stun DOES.
    Titanfall 2 is not some gaming messiah that can justify the arrogance in trying to change what the word stun means, and neither are you.

    Ok sir. Since you want to play semantics, let's go.

    The Arc grenade description says it stuns pilots and blinds titans.

    Define stun (v) - knock unconscious or into a dazed or semiconscious state.
    Define disorient (v) - make (someone) lose their sense of direction.

    What does the arc grenade do to pilots in game? It blinds the pilot, prevents him from turning quickly, and drops his speed by 90%.

    Now tell me genius, which of those words above best describes the pilot once hit with an arc grenade?
    Is he stunned or disoriented? I'll wait.
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    edited June 2017
    There's no* semantics in my comment, it seems more like you didn't bother paying attention to what I'm talking about.
    "especially in a game. In no game I have ever known are stunned targets able to move around, much less take actions, and I'd love to see you find me one that had any sort of success where they can".
    That's a direct quote, so it's nothing I haven't already said very clearly, and definitely something you should have read by now. If you really need me to paraphrase it, stuns in video games don't allow action.
    If you need even further example:
    League of Legends stuns - no action allowed
    Skyrim stuns - no action allowed
    Smash Bros. stuns - no action allowed
    Overwatch stuns - no action allowed
    World of Warcraft stuns - no action allowed (granted, specific items supersede this, but only as an exception, not the rule)
    From your tag, I get that you enjoy challenging the norm, and that's a great thing most of the time, but trying to change simple definitions that literally everyone else in the gaming community uses is just ****, if not outright edgy.
    Trying to wave around your dictionary playing the real semantics does not change what every single major well-known game defines a stun as. Seriously, are we having a discussion about the Online Mirriam-Webster dictionary you so elegantly copy/pasted? Or are we talking about games and their commonly held definitions. It's a Titanfall 2 forum, so if I had to guess..
  • OdysseyHome
    2140 postsPosts: 2,211 ✭✭✭✭
    In most multiplayer FPS games 'stun' just means inhibited movement and / or aiming. Cod concussion grenades would slow you down but not blind you. Flash grenade's would blind but not slow you.

    In RPGs its prevented action. So I get your point, but that is kinda what slow movement and aiming is doing. It's not that engaging having all control taken away from you in a FPS game. Particularly in a low TTK game. Hence why Hero shooters can doing this because they were borne from the RPG side of play.

    The Arc nade does both, and I hate it for it. You get stunned and the only way to escape is if you are using a survival tactical like phase or stim. Grapple maybe. This game really likes to distort your view of the game space in part to increase immersion but I find that it just detracts from your capability to react. You can't really think your way out of a blind / stun; you just have to hope a friendly helps you or the foe fumbles.
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    edited June 2017
    In most multiplayer FPS games 'stun' just means inhibited movement and / or aiming.
    This isn't true at all. The first and foremost FPS among modern shooters right now, which is Overwatch, uses the same definition for stuns that you claim is held by RPGs. McCree's Flashbang, Mei's freezing, Reinhardt's Hammer Down - all of these and more completely prevent player action, and the abilities that are soft CC don't misplace the word stun in their description. Junkrat's Steel Trap even goes so far as to specify that it stuns for one second and roots for three. The fact that the leading game in the genre knows there's a difference between preventing all action and simply inhibiting movement should be enough of a queue alone that Arc Grenades description is wrong.
    This isn't a problem with whether Titanfall is "RPG inclined" enough to support real stuns, this isn't even a problem about whether or not Arc Grenades should or shouldn't stun. This is a problem because the description is saying that Arc Grenades do something they don't.

    Even in COD, the concussion and stun grenades have very specific descriptions stating what they actually do, so even if they're inappropriately named you're not going to end up throwing one expecting one result and getting another. Both of their tooltip/descriptions specify that they only slow and disorient targets. Arc Grenades description gives no such clarity and simply says "stuns pilots".
    I really don't particularly care whether or not Arc Grenades actually stun their targets - that's a balancing issue that I have very little interest in, but the description needs to match what the grenade actually does. Until it does, It can't be considered anything other than either a bug or a blatant mistake. Having abilities do what the tooltips say they do is a standard that AAA games shouldn't be struggling with.
  • OdysseyHome
    2140 postsPosts: 2,211 ✭✭✭✭
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    In most multiplayer FPS games 'stun' just means inhibited movement and / or aiming.
    This isn't true at all. The first and foremost FPS among modern shooters right now, which is Overwatch, uses the same definition for stuns that you claim is held by RPGs. McCree's Flashbang, Mei's freezing, Reinhardt's Hammer Down - all of these and more completely prevent player action, and the abilities that are soft CC don't misplace the word stun in their description. Junkrat's Steel Trap even goes so far as to specify that it stuns for one second and roots for three. The fact that the leading game in the genre knows there's a difference between preventing all action and simply inhibiting movement should be enough of a queue alone that Arc Grenades description is wrong.
    This isn't a problem with whether Titanfall is "RPG inclined" enough to support real stuns, this isn't even a problem about whether or not Arc Grenades should or shouldn't stun. This is a problem because the description is saying that Arc Grenades do something they don't.

    Even in COD, the concussion and stun grenades have very specific descriptions stating what they actually do, so even if they're inappropriately named you're not going to end up throwing one expecting one result and getting another. Both of their tooltip/descriptions specify that they only slow and disorient targets. Arc Grenades description gives no such clarity and simply says "stuns pilots".
    I really don't particularly care whether or not Arc Grenades actually stun their targets - that's a balancing issue that I have very little interest in, but the description needs to match what the grenade actually does. Until it does, It can't be considered anything other than either a bug or a blatant mistake. Having abilities do what the tooltips say they do is a standard that AAA games shouldn't be struggling with.

    Overwatch is a hero shooter. So they were born from RPGs where 'Stun' has a specific RPG meaning. Titanfall isn't an RPG so the RPG definition isn't used. The word is used in a lose way for inhibited movement and aiming which is prevalent in non-RPG action FPS games.

    But I agree that allot of the stuff in FAQ and tool-tips are vague, but this is an attempt to keep things simple and easy to read / translate. Just this instance I don't fully agree with. Stun make sense to allot of people.

    How about they call it "discombobulate".
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    There's no* semantics in my comment, it seems more like you didn't bother paying attention to what I'm talking about.
    "especially in a game. In no game I have ever known are stunned targets able to move around, much less take actions, and I'd love to see you find me one that had any sort of success where they can".
    That's a direct quote, so it's nothing I haven't already said very clearly, and definitely something you should have read by now. If you really need me to paraphrase it, stuns in video games don't allow action.
    If you need even further example:
    League of Legends stuns - no action allowed
    Skyrim stuns - no action allowed
    Smash Bros. stuns - no action allowed
    Overwatch stuns - no action allowed
    World of Warcraft stuns - no action allowed (granted, specific items supersede this, but only as an exception, not the rule)
    From your tag, I get that you enjoy challenging the norm, and that's a great thing most of the time, but trying to change simple definitions that literally everyone else in the gaming community uses is just ****, if not outright edgy.
    Trying to wave around your dictionary playing the real semantics does not change what every single major well-known game defines a stun as. Seriously, are we having a discussion about the Online Mirriam-Webster dictionary you so elegantly copy/pasted? Or are we talking about games and their commonly held definitions. It's a Titanfall 2 forum, so if I had to guess..

    So your basis of your argument is that other games, that aren't Titanfall, have a different version of stun than Titanfall and therefore Respawn is WRONG? Hm. That doesn't make ANY sense. As for I didn't read what you said. I did. However, YOU said that Respawn doesn't know what "stun" means so that means you were arguing semantics. You also corrected me and said that I meant disoriented. If you're talking about reading comments, you should reread your own. You still completely avoided my question. So I'll ask again: based on the standard definitions of stun and disorient, which best describes what the grenade does in game? Stun or disorient? P.S. It can be BOTH.

    You aren't playing ANY of the games you listed. All of the games you listed are JRPGs or some sort of RPGs. If you wanted to make a VALID comparison, you could have brought of CoD, BF, CSGO, or even Halo. The only thing remotely comparable to TF2's arc grenade in any of those games would be the concussion and flashbang grenade. Those temporarily disorient an enemy, blinds them, and also slows down their movement. Sound familiar? However, guess what? You can STILL fire while under the effects of a flashbang or concussion grenade. Your meaningless reference to games that aren't even in the same genre as TF2 is a clear reach and everyone knows it. GG m8. Your logic is flawed to the umpteenth degree.
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    ProfArs wrote: »
    You aren't playing ANY of the games you listed.
    Related sources are relevant here in the same way related sources are relevant literally everywhere else. Trying to disprove something by throwing every precedent in the trash just means you don't have a proper response to them.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    All of the games you listed are JRPGs or some sort of RPGs.
    Overwatch is an RPG because.. why? Because the characters have different names? If Overwatch is an RPG for having different names, then TF2 is an RPG because it has different classes. If not having the definition of stun from games of the same genre is really getting your goat though, refer to:
    Team Fortress 2 stun - immobilized and unable to attack (if you can really pull it off, you're allowed taunt kills)
    Paladins stun - prevents all action
    Battleborn stun - prevents all action
    Battlefield (Hardline) stun - prevents all action
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon stun - prevents all action
    and yes, since it really is an FPS PvP game despite what you think, Overwatch stuns - PREVENTS ALL ACTION
    ProfArs wrote: »
    you were arguing semantics... So I'll ask again: based on the standard definitions of stun and disorient, which best describes what the grenade does in game?
    You can't have this argument both ways. Either we make the subject semantics or you get to keep your dictionary definitions question. If it's about semantics then the dictionary definition doesn't matter at all because we're arguing the vernacular. If it's about the dictionary definition question being your trump card, then I point out how every single other well-known PvP FPS disagrees and ask you why Titanfall should be the glorified exception.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    If you wanted to make a VALID comparison, you could have brought of CoD, BF, CSGO, or even Halo... The only thing remotely comparable to TF2's arc grenade in any of those games would be the concussion and flashbang grenade. Those temporarily disorient an enemy, blinds them, and also slows down their movement
    Yeah, this bit right here. "I'm reading I'm reading!" well go read the bit about CoD since you obviously hadn't when you wrote that. Better yet, here's the quote:
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    Even in COD, the concussion and stun grenades have very specific descriptions stating what they actually do, so even if they're inappropriately named you're not going to end up throwing one expecting one result and getting another. Both of their tooltip/descriptions specify that they only slow and disorient targets. Arc Grenades description gives no such clarity and simply says "stuns pilots".

  • Lythriilux
    6 postsPosts: 6
    When someone is stunned their body doesn't immediately shut down. There's no context, real world or videogames, where this is applicable. The purpose of stunning someone is to disorientate them. Your problem is that you interpreted the function of the grade completely wrongly.
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    Lythriilux wrote: »
    When someone is stunned their body doesn't immediately shut down. There's no context, real world or videogames, where this is applicable. The purpose of stunning someone is to disorientate them. Your problem is that you interpreted the function of the grade completely wrongly.
    Nobody here is talking about how being stunned works in real life, why would you even bring that up? We're talking about a game mechanic, on a game forum.. Stuns in almost every single game work differently than they would in the real world. These are very clearly different things that don't relate in any way.
    As far as a lack of context, I've listed close to a dozen well-known, genre leading games - FPS, PvP, and otherwise that all share a colloquial definition of stun, and there are many more besides them that also define stun that very same way. The problem is that the description is misleading when it's compared to how everyone else describes stuns. Players shouldn't have trouble understanding the function of an item. If they do, it means you failed to communicate the function well enough. Your average player isn't going to look at an item that claims to stun enemies and expect immediate retaliation, because nobody else in the gaming community describes stuns that way.
  • Lythriilux
    6 postsPosts: 6
    The vast majority of games I've played with a stun mechanic have always indicated that it disorientates enemies. I think this is actually the first case I've ever seen of someone complaining that the stun mechanic is misleading.

    These are (some of) the same people who developed CoD. Stun grenades are Titanfall's flash bangs.
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    The games I've listed are among the most well-known and popular of their respective genres, and I'd wager their definitions of stun hold more merit in the community than an anonymous, unspecified "vast majority" of games cited by.. some guy.
    If these developers worked on CoD, I don't understand why they'd choose to go from a clear, specific description like what their flashbangs and concussions have, to something that's vague and easily misinterpreted.
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    Related sources are relevant here in the same way related sources are relevant literally everywhere else. Trying to disprove something by throwing every precedent in the trash just means you don't have a proper response to them.

    Your precedence are 100% meaningless when they have absolutely nothing to do with the genre you're referencing. Comparing RPGs to FPSs is like comparing apples to oranges. It's a fallacious comparison. They aren't the same genre and yet you are directly comparing them like they are. STOP.
    Overwatch is an RPG because.. why? Because the characters have different names? If Overwatch is an RPG for having different names, then TF2 is an RPG because it has different classes. If not having the definition of stun from games of the same genre is really getting your goat though, refer to:
    Team Fortress 2 stun - immobilized and unable to attack (if you can really pull it off, you're allowed taunt kills)
    Paladins stun - prevents all action
    Battleborn stun - prevents all action
    Battlefield (Hardline) stun - prevents all action
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon stun - prevents all action
    and yes, since it really is an FPS PvP game despite what you think, Overwatch stuns - PREVENTS ALL ACTION

    Overwatch is a FPS MOBA with RPG elements. That is NOT the same thing as Titanfall which is just a FPS. But here you are making your fallacious analogies with no care in the world. And really my dude? You're comparing the stun gun from Hardline with an arc grenade? How does that work? One is a GUN and one is GRENADE. They have two completely different purposes and used in two completely different ways. Again with more fallacious analogies. Instead of just comparing abilities and weapons who exist with the SOLE purpose of completely stopping opponent action, how about we compare apples and apples? Give me ONE FPS that has a grenade that completely stops ALL action. I'll wait on that too.

    You can't have this argument both ways. Either we make the subject semantics or you get to keep your dictionary definitions question. If it's about semantics then the dictionary definition doesn't matter at all because we're arguing the vernacular. If it's about the dictionary definition question being your trump card, then I point out how every single other well-known PvP FPS disagrees and ask you why Titanfall should be the glorified exception.

    You're still avoiding my question and you're still making fallacious analogies between FPSs with RPG/MOBA like qualities with a standard FPS. I have yet to see you provide any rational as to why Titanfall 2 has to follow the precedence of any the games you listed (since the developers of Respawn don't have to follow ANY sort of precedence and yet according to you, the arbiter of valid opinions, they HAVE to) and how what the arc grenade does not stun based on the standard definition of a stun.
    Yeah, this bit right here. "I'm reading I'm reading!" well go read the bit about CoD since you obviously hadn't when you wrote that. Better yet, here's the quote:
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    Even in COD, the concussion and stun grenades have very specific descriptions stating what they actually do, so even if they're inappropriately named you're not going to end up throwing one expecting one result and getting another. Both of their tooltip/descriptions specify that they only slow and disorient targets. Arc Grenades description gives no such clarity and simply says "stuns pilots".

    Of course I didn't read something that wasn't directed towards me. I read what's directed to me unless I decide otherwise.

    Ok and based on the definition of a STUN, which I have given to you several times already and you refuse to acknowledge, the Arc grenade DOES stun. But because it doesn't stop ALL action, it doesn't matter to YOU in the slightest since, as the almighty arbiter of valid opinions, the arc grenade still allows you to move when NO other grenade in an FPS allows you to do what you're describing. Yet again, a STUN (V) - knock unconscious or into a dazed or semiconscious state
    . According to the second half of the definition of stun, the arc grenade does in fact stun. In EVERY game that you're describing, their "stuns" are not stuns at all. They are IMMOBILIZING or INCAPACITATING their targets. Immobilize (v) - to prevent the use, activity, or movement of. Incapacitate (v) - to deprive of ability, qualification, or strength; make incapable or unfit; disable. Whoops. Looks like all the games in your almighty precedence don't know what "stun" means and are substituting that for immobilization or incapacitation. Awkwardddddd. Too bad that stun isn't a synonym for EITHER of those words. In NO FPS is there a grenade that completely stops ALL actions or in other words, incapacitates them (meaning they can't see, move, or shoot). But hey. Keep embarrassing yourself with your fallacious analogies. I can do this all day.
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    @Katsuresu
    Related sources are relevant here in the same way related sources are relevant literally everywhere else. Trying to disprove something by throwing every precedent in the trash just means you don't have a proper response to them.

    Your precedence are 100% meaningless when they have absolutely nothing to do with the genre you're referencing. Comparing RPGs to FPSs is like comparing apples to oranges. It's a fallacious comparison. They aren't the same genre and yet you are directly comparing them like they are. STOP.
    Overwatch is an RPG because.. why? Because the characters have different names? If Overwatch is an RPG for having different names, then TF2 is an RPG because it has different classes. If not having the definition of stun from games of the same genre is really getting your goat though, refer to:
    Team Fortress 2 stun - immobilized and unable to attack (if you can really pull it off, you're allowed taunt kills)
    Paladins stun - prevents all action
    Battleborn stun - prevents all action
    Battlefield (Hardline) stun - prevents all action
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon stun - prevents all action
    and yes, since it really is an FPS PvP game despite what you think, Overwatch stuns - PREVENTS ALL ACTION

    Overwatch is a FPS MOBA with RPG elements. That is NOT the same thing as Titanfall which is just a FPS. But here you are making your fallacious analogies with no care in the world. And really my dude? You're comparing the stun gun from Hardline with an arc grenade? How does that work? One is a GUN and one is GRENADE. They have two completely different purposes and used in two completely different ways. Again with more fallacious analogies. Instead of just comparing abilities and weapons who exist with the SOLE purpose of completely stopping opponent action, how about we compare apples and apples? Give me ONE FPS that has a grenade that completely stops ALL action. I'll wait on that too.

    You can't have this argument both ways. Either we make the subject semantics or you get to keep your dictionary definitions question. If it's about semantics then the dictionary definition doesn't matter at all because we're arguing the vernacular. If it's about the dictionary definition question being your trump card, then I point out how every single other well-known PvP FPS disagrees and ask you why Titanfall should be the glorified exception.

    You're still avoiding my question and you're still making fallacious analogies between FPSs with RPG/MOBA like qualities with a standard FPS. YOU were the one who said that Respawn didn't know what stun means which means YOU were arguing semantics when you brought it up. Either you finish what YOU started or YOU retract your statement.

    I have yet to see you provide any rationale as to why Titanfall 2 has to follow the precedence of any the games you listed (since the developers of Respawn don't have to follow ANY sort of precedence and yet according to you, the arbiter of valid opinions, they HAVE to) and how what the arc grenade does is NOT a stun based on the standard definition of a stun.
    Yeah, this bit right here. "I'm reading I'm reading!" well go read the bit about CoD since you obviously hadn't when you wrote that. Better yet, here's the quote:
    Katsuresu wrote: »
    Even in COD, the concussion and stun grenades have very specific descriptions stating what they actually do, so even if they're inappropriately named you're not going to end up throwing one expecting one result and getting another. Both of their tooltip/descriptions specify that they only slow and disorient targets. Arc Grenades description gives no such clarity and simply says "stuns pilots".

    Of course I didn't read something that wasn't directed towards me. I read what's directed to me unless I decide otherwise.

    Ok and based on the definition of a STUN, which I have given to you several times already and you refuse to acknowledge, the Arc grenade DOES stun. But because it doesn't stop ALL action, it doesn't matter to YOU in the slightest since, as the almighty arbiter of valid opinions, the arc grenade still allows you to move when NO other grenade in an FPS allows you to do what you're describing. Yet again, a STUN (V) is defined as to - knock unconscious or into a dazed or semiconscious state
    . According to the second half of the definition of stun, the arc grenade does in fact stun.

    In EVERY game that you're describing, their "stuns" are not stuns at all. They are IMMOBILIZING or INCAPACITATING their targets. Immobilize (v) - to prevent the use, activity, or movement of. Incapacitate (v) - to deprive of ability, qualification, or strength; make incapable or unfit; disable. Whoops. Looks like all the games in your almighty precedence don't know what "stun" means and are substituting that for immobilization or incapacitation. Awkwardddddd. Too bad that stun isn't a synonym for EITHER of those words. In NO FPS is there a grenade that completely stops ALL actions or in other words, incapacitates them (meaning they can't see, move, or shoot). But hey. Keep embarrassing yourself with your fallacious analogies. I can do this all day.
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    edited June 2017
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Your precedence are 100% meaningless when they have absolutely nothing to do with the genre you're referencing.
    I've just listed six more games for you that share the genre, please don't ignore them.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Overwatch is a FPS MOBA with RPG elements. That is NOT the same thing as Titanfall which is just a FPS.
    Titanfall 2 is an FPS MOBA as well, and the amount of character/class variation between the two is honestly roughly equal. If anything, TF2 has more class customization combinations than Overwatch has.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    You're comparing the stun gun from Hardline with an arc grenade? How does that work? One is a GUN and one is GRENADE.
    You're mistaken. I'm not comparing the two items, I'm comparing the definition of the word stun between the two games. That's what this entire thread is about.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Instead of just comparing abilities and weapons who exist with the SOLE purpose of completely stopping opponent action, how about we compare apples and apples?
    Dear god lol, for the last time, THIS IS NOT A THREAD COMPARING ITEMS FROM DIFFERENT GAMES. We are comparing the DEFINITION OF STUN BETWEEN GAMES AND WHY RESPAWN STANDS ALONE WITH THEIRS.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    You're still avoiding my question
    I'm not avoiding it, I'm repeatedly trying to point out to you that it's an irrelevant question. The answer doesn't matter because either a) I'm talking about the vernacular adopted by every other FPS and otherwise genre alike, or b) TF2 is "correct", but is the singular game that refuses to hop on the bandwagon for the sake of clarity towards players.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    I have yet to see you provide any rationale as to why Titanfall 2 has to follow the precedence of any the games you listed (since the developers of Respawn don't have to follow ANY sort of precedence and yet according to you, the arbiter of valid opinions, they HAVE to)
    Nowhere in the entirety of this thread has anyone said TF2 has to do anything. I have, however, given my reasoning behind why they should change the tooltip about a dozen times. It will be the same here as it has been the dozen times I've said it above. There is no reason for a single games definition of stun to be different from every single other games. That kind of discrepancy is pointless and will only cause confusion. As much as Respawn is their own entity, they are part of the gaming community and the gaming community already has a definition. We don't need another.
    There's a very big difference between having to do something and whether you should do something. If your games definition of stun goes against every other leading FPS games definition, then yes, you should change it. Games are made for the players, and ignoring a beneficial precedent for no other reason than "I don't have to" is selfish.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Of course I didn't read something that wasn't directed towards me. I read what's directed to me unless I decide otherwise.
    If you want to be a part of this threads discussion, you really do need to read the discussion. Where do you get off passing judgement on people when you refuse to even listen to what they're saying? If you're determined to continue ignoring the points being made in the thread, then please stop posting.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Ok and based on the definition of a STUN, which I have given to you several times already and you refuse to acknowledge, the Arc grenade DOES stun. But because it doesn't stop ALL action, it doesn't matter to YOU in the slightest since, as the almighty arbiter of valid opinions, the arc grenade still allows you to move when NO other grenade in an FPS allows you to do what you're describing. Yet again, a STUN (V) is defined as to - knock unconscious or into a dazed or semiconscious state
    . According to the second half of the definition of stun, the arc grenade does in fact stun.
    In EVERY game that you're describing, their "stuns" are not stuns at all. They are IMMOBILIZING or INCAPACITATING their targets. Immobilize (v) - to prevent the use, activity, or movement of. Incapacitate (v) - to deprive of ability, qualification, or strength; make incapable or unfit; disable.
    This will be the fourth time we've gone back and forth on this point, and the fourth time I've given you my answer. Much like the first time I said it, we are not discussing the Online Webster-Mirriam dictionary that you're incessantly quoting. We are discussing the fact that the industry-accepted definition of stun is not the definition Respawn is choosing to use, and the function of Arc Grenades is unclear because of that fact. Like I've said before, this is not me forcing my definition of the word stun down Respawns throats. I am pointing out the very relevant fact that no one else in the industry who knows what they're doing describes stun this way. RESPAWN IS THE ONLY ONE. Unless you plan to argue that Respawn is literally the only game in it's somehow incredibly niche new genre, then there's no meaningful argument as to why they should have a different definition than everyone else.
    To be entirely honest, it's getting very old responding to the same arguments over and over, and the quoting in this thread isn't very comfortable. If your future responses recycle your current argument again, I'm just going to put -see above- to save myself time.
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    @Katsuresu
    I've just listed six more games for you that share the genre, please don't ignore them.

    They're NOT in the same SUB-GENRE as TF2 which is the entire point. Those aren't just FPSs. They're FPSs with MOBA and/or RPG elements. THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
    Titanfall 2 is an FPS MOBA as well, and the amount of character/class variation between the two is honestly roughly equal. If anything, TF2 has more class customization combinations than Overwatch has.

    *Facedesk* *Facedesk* *Facedesk* You obviously don't know what a MOBA is either so I have to define that for you to. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA) is a sub-genre of the Real-Time Strategy genre. The gameplay is characterized by single unit hero (Hmmm... sounds like Overwatch) strategic combat between two small teams of players, each trying to destroy the opponent's base.

    Whoops. Looks like Titanfall 2 isn't a MOBA. Would you look at that?

    Whereas, Overwatch is an FPS with MOBA and RPG ELEMENTS.
    Titanfall 2 is JUST an FPS.

    Comparing TF2 to Overwatch is the most fallacious comparison you could possibly come up with as they play NOTHING alike. ANY Overwatch player who plays Titanfall will tell you they play NOTHING alike and almost NOTHING about them are similar except they have FPS elements.

    Differences:
    1. Overwatch has single-unit characters that cannot be customized (except for appearance via skins) in any capacity. Whatever character you select, their abilities and weapons are STATIC and cannot be changed, Titanfall 2 is an FPS which allows you to fully customize your own pilot with various loadouts and you can customize and change their abilities, appearance, weapons, titans and boosts at WILL.
    2. Overwatch focuses on objective play and teamwork is vastly more important than Titanfall. EVERY game mode in Overwatch forces players to work together to achieve a goal. Titanfall has objective play but you can ignore objective play entirely and play game modes strictly to kill other players. Ffs you can even play FFA so you don't have to be attached to teammates. You also do NOT need to play or even communicate with your team to win in Titanfall. You can solo q every game and carry your team to victory with ever having to interact or follow your teammates.
    3. Overwatch has ranked and casual play while Titanfall only has casual play.
    4. Overwatch has ROLES in its game such as a Tank, Healer, so on and so forth. There are NO such roles in Titanfall 2. You are just a pilot playing the objective at hand. You cannot be revived, You cannot activate supers. You do not have a visible health bar that can be increased by walking over a health pack.

    Conclusion, Overwatch and Titanfall are VASTLY different games and comparing the two is a FALLACIOUS analogy. Full stop.

    Here's a list of MOBAs. Notice how Titanfall 2 is NOT on it.
    https://www.giantbomb.com/multiplayer-online-battle-arena/3015-6598/games/
    You're mistaken. I'm not comparing the two items, I'm comparing the definition of the word stun between the two games. That's what this entire thread is about.

    You CANNOT compare stuns from vastly different games without comparing THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY'RE USED IN. The stun of an ABILITY is going to be VASTLY different from the stun of WEAPON. The stun of a WEAPON is vastly different from the stun of a GRENADE. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT THINGS USED FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES and are ACTIVATED IN DIFFERENT WAYS. You're making fallacious analogies and just grouping all stuns into one category like they're all used in the SAME way.

    Dear god lol, for the last time, THIS IS NOT A THREAD COMPARING ITEMS FROM DIFFERENT GAMES. We are comparing the DEFINITION OF STUN BETWEEN GAMES AND WHY RESPAWN STANDS ALONE WITH THEIRS.

    Are you ACTUALLY an ****? How far does your cognitive dissonance go? You just said we're comparing the DEFINITION of stuns between games but when I give you the LITERAL definition of stun, incapacitate, and immobilize, you say it IS NOT RELEVANT IN THE CONVERSATION. I can't... I can't be asked with you. Your cognitive dissonance has gone to new highs. The way OTHER games use the word "stun" is IRRELEVANT in this conversation. GAMES DO NOT DETERMINE THE DEFINITION OF WORDS. LINGUISTS AND LEXICOGRAPHERS DO.Yet here you are, proclaiming VIDEO GAME DEVELOPERS as the arbiter of VALID definitions as if they're INFALLIBLE in the way they define terms and their usage. Are you **** serious?
    I'm not avoiding it, I'm repeatedly trying to point out to you that it's an irrelevant question. The answer doesn't matter because either a) I'm talking about the vernacular adopted by every other FPS and otherwise genre alike, or b) TF2 is "correct", but is the singular game that refuses to hop on the bandwagon for the sake of clarity towards players.

    Still avoiding my question. Using logical fallacies. Wants Respawn to bandwagon other FPSs who have MOBA and RPG elements in them and don't play anything like Titanfall 2. Ok.
    Nowhere in the entirety of this thread has anyone said TF2 has to do anything. I have, however, given my reasoning behind why they should change the tooltip about a dozen times. It will be the same here as it has been the dozen times I've said it above. There is no reason for a single games definition of stun to be different from every single other games. That kind of discrepancy is pointless and will only cause confusion. As much as Respawn is their own entity, they are part of the gaming community and the gaming community already has a definition. We don't need another.
    There's a very big difference between having to do something and whether you should do something. If your games definition of stun goes against every other leading FPS games definition, then yes, you should change it. Games are made for the players, and ignoring a beneficial precedent for no other reason than "I don't have to" is selfish.

    So you've confirmed my thoughts. You think that video game developers definition of the word stun and the literal definition of stun is irrelevant in discussion. So, the literal definition of stun is superceded by developers (who aren't linguists or lexicographers and can make up definitions at will to suit the playstyle of their game at will). Ok. Good to see your logic is infallible here.
    If you want to be a part of this threads discussion, you really do need to read the discussion. Where do you get off passing judgement on people when you refuse to even listen to what they're saying? If you're determined to continue ignoring the points being made in the thread, then please stop posting.

    Caling the kettle black. Check. Has repeatedly ignored my points and say they're superceded by his own. Check. Ok. I'm REALLY starting to get you now.
    This will be the fourth time we've gone back and forth on this point, and the fourth time I've given you my answer. Much like the first time I said it, we are not discussing the Online Webster-Mirriam dictionary that you're incessantly quoting. We are discussing the fact that the industry-accepted definition of stun is not the definition Respawn is choosing to use, and the function of Arc Grenades is unclear because of that fact. Like I've said before, this is not me forcing my definition of the word stun down Respawns throats. I am pointing out the very relevant fact that no one else in the industry who knows what they're doing describes stun this way. RESPAWN IS THE ONLY ONE. Unless you plan to argue that Respawn is literally the only game in it's somehow incredibly niche new genre, then there's no meaningful argument as to why they should have a different definition than everyone else.
    To be entirely honest, it's getting very old responding to the same arguments over and over, and the quoting in this thread isn't very comfortable. If your future responses recycle your current argument again, I'm just going to put -see above- to save myself time.

    a) I am not citing Miriam Webster and even if I was, it would not invalidate my points which you have yet to adequately counter.

    b) The gaming industry does not have an "accepted" version of the word "stun". Obviously it DOES NOT otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're arguing that the way other developers are CORRECT in defining the word stun based off of NO OTHER LOGIC except that the developers YOU are citing all define it the SAME way (you are literally just using argumentum ad populum).

    ____________________________________________________________________________________
    In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

    This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, vox populi,[2] and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), fickle crowd syndrome, and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________


    That is NOT a valid way to determine if they are using said definition of the word stun correctly and applying it accurately. People make up and use words out of context ALL the time. It is SO popular in fact, even a dictionary was created to show this phenomenon. It's called URBAN DICTIONARY. When you want to decide whether or not words are being use accurately and in the right context, you reference dictionaries and thesauruses which are derived from or written by LINGUISTS and LEXICOGRAPHERS. CONTEXT is just as relevant in deciding how a word is used. A banker may use the SAME words as another profession, such as an economist. However, they may use the word DIFFERENTLY, while still following the valid definitions, to suit the CONTEXT of their profession. Just like other games may be similar in nature but may use words DIFFERENTLY to suit the CONTEXT of their game and their SUB-GENRE. That does NOT make one definition that developers use supercede the definitions of other developers. The ONLY words that Developers have full artistic rights to make up in terms of terminology are words that are SPECIFIC to their genre.

    c) Respawn has not created a new niche genre of gaming. However, you're comparing games (that are all similar to each other) to a game (TItanfall 2) that is NOT similar to the games you listed in any capacity. The only thing they have in common is that they are FPSs but ALL FPSs are NOT the same and various FPSs have DIFFERENT ELEMENTS that differentiate each other from different games in the same category. Thats why there are:

    1. FPSs (Titanfall, CoD, Halo, BF: where you take nameless soldiers with no backstories into combat but they can be customized heavily to take on various tasks or make certain tasks easier)
    2. FPS RPGs (Borderlands: where you select named characters with backstories and unique characteristics on an adventure; said characters can be customized but their raw aesthetics [body type, head shape, facial features] cannot be changed [unless modded] and their abilities can be improved but not changed from their intended purpose)
    3. FPSs w/ RPG elements (Destiny, The Division: where you take a nameless characters that follows a static storyline that establishes your role in the game and what you must do to fit into said role OR you take a nameless characters that follows a fluid storyline where your decisions change the outcome of the game)
    4. FPSs w/ MOBA elements (Overwatch: where you select single unit characters to play objectives strategically in order to accomplish a goal)

    Note how these are ALL FPSs but all play DRASTICALLY different and have different SUB-GENRES.

    Use... your... brain before you type another reply.

    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • ProfArs
    1284 postsPosts: 1,312 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    @Katsuresu
    I've just listed six more games for you that share the genre, please don't ignore them.

    They're NOT in the same SUB-GENRE as TF2 which is the entire point. Those aren't just FPSs. They're FPSs with MOBA and/or RPG elements. THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
    Titanfall 2 is an FPS MOBA as well, and the amount of character/class variation between the two is honestly roughly equal. If anything, TF2 has more class customization combinations than Overwatch has.

    *Facedesk* *Facedesk* *Facedesk* You obviously don't know what a MOBA is either so I have to define that for you to. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA) is a sub-genre of the Real-Time Strategy genre. The gameplay is characterized by single unit hero (Hmmm... sounds like Overwatch) strategic combat between two small teams of players, each trying to destroy the opponent's base.

    Whoops. Looks like Titanfall 2 isn't a MOBA. Would you look at that?

    Whereas, Overwatch is an FPS with MOBA and RPG ELEMENTS.
    Titanfall 2 is JUST an FPS.

    Comparing TF2 to Overwatch is the most fallacious comparison you could possibly come up with as they play NOTHING alike. ANY Overwatch player who plays Titanfall will tell you they play NOTHING alike and almost NOTHING about them are similar except they have FPS elements.

    Differences:
    1. Overwatch has single-unit characters that cannot be customized (except for appearance via skins) in any capacity. Whatever character you select, their abilities and weapons are STATIC and cannot be changed, Titanfall 2 is an FPS which allows you to fully customize your own pilot with various loadouts and you can customize and change their abilities, appearance, weapons, titans and boosts at WILL.
    2. Overwatch focuses on objective play and teamwork is vastly more important than Titanfall. EVERY game mode in Overwatch forces players to work together to achieve a goal. Titanfall has objective play but you can ignore objective play entirely and play game modes strictly to kill other players. Ffs you can even play FFA so you don't have to be attached to teammates. You also do NOT need to play or even communicate with your team to win in Titanfall. You can solo q every game and carry your team to victory with ever having to interact or follow your teammates.
    3. Overwatch has ranked and casual play while Titanfall only has casual play.
    4. Overwatch has ROLES in its game such as a Tank, Healer, so on and so forth. There are NO such roles in Titanfall 2. You are just a pilot playing the objective at hand. You cannot be revived, You cannot activate supers. You do not have a visible health bar that can be increased by walking over a health pack.

    Conclusion, Overwatch and Titanfall are VASTLY different games and comparing the two is a FALLACIOUS analogy. Full stop.

    Here's a list of MOBAs. Notice how Titanfall 2 is NOT on it.
    https://www.giantbomb.com/multiplayer-online-battle-arena/3015-6598/games/
    You're mistaken. I'm not comparing the two items, I'm comparing the definition of the word stun between the two games. That's what this entire thread is about.

    You CANNOT compare stuns from vastly different games without comparing THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY'RE USED IN. The stun of an ABILITY is going to be VASTLY different from the stun of WEAPON. The stun of a WEAPON is vastly different from the stun of a GRENADE. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT THINGS USED FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES and are ACTIVATED IN DIFFERENT WAYS. You're making fallacious analogies and just grouping all stuns into one category like they're all used in the SAME way. Just because they are used with the same PURPOSE doesn't mean they are used in the SAME way. Scissors are used to cut things apart. So is a knife. You don't see scissors being used at the dinner table to cut meat and you don't see knives being used in a preschool to cut paper. They are both used for the same PURPOSE but not used in the same WAY. This is why CONTEXT matters.

    Dear god lol, for the last time, THIS IS NOT A THREAD COMPARING ITEMS FROM DIFFERENT GAMES. We are comparing the DEFINITION OF STUN BETWEEN GAMES AND WHY RESPAWN STANDS ALONE WITH THEIRS.

    Are you ACTUALLY an ****? How far does your cognitive dissonance go? You just said we're comparing the DEFINITION of stuns between games but when I give you the LITERAL definition of stun, incapacitate, and immobilize, you say it IS NOT RELEVANT IN THE CONVERSATION. I can't... I can't be asked with you. Your cognitive dissonance has gone to new highs. The way OTHER games use the word "stun" is IRRELEVANT in this conversation. GAMES DO NOT DETERMINE THE DEFINITION OF WORDS. LINGUISTS AND LEXICOGRAPHERS DO.Yet here you are, proclaiming VIDEO GAME DEVELOPERS as the arbiter of VALID definitions as if they're INFALLIBLE in the way they define terms and their usage. Are you **** serious?
    I'm not avoiding it, I'm repeatedly trying to point out to you that it's an irrelevant question. The answer doesn't matter because either a) I'm talking about the vernacular adopted by every other FPS and otherwise genre alike, or b) TF2 is "correct", but is the singular game that refuses to hop on the bandwagon for the sake of clarity towards players.

    Still avoiding my question. Using logical fallacies. Wants Respawn to bandwagon other FPSs who have MOBA and RPG elements in them and don't play anything like Titanfall 2. Ok.
    Nowhere in the entirety of this thread has anyone said TF2 has to do anything. I have, however, given my reasoning behind why they should change the tooltip about a dozen times. It will be the same here as it has been the dozen times I've said it above. There is no reason for a single games definition of stun to be different from every single other games. That kind of discrepancy is pointless and will only cause confusion. As much as Respawn is their own entity, they are part of the gaming community and the gaming community already has a definition. We don't need another.
    There's a very big difference between having to do something and whether you should do something. If your games definition of stun goes against every other leading FPS games definition, then yes, you should change it. Games are made for the players, and ignoring a beneficial precedent for no other reason than "I don't have to" is selfish.

    So you've confirmed my thoughts. You think that video game developers definition of the word stun and the literal definition of stun is irrelevant in discussion. So, the literal definition of stun is superceded by developers (who aren't linguists or lexicographers and can make up definitions at will to suit the playstyle of their game at will). Ok. Good to see your logic is infallible here.
    If you want to be a part of this threads discussion, you really do need to read the discussion. Where do you get off passing judgement on people when you refuse to even listen to what they're saying? If you're determined to continue ignoring the points being made in the thread, then please stop posting.

    Caling the kettle black. Check. Has repeatedly ignored my points and say they're superceded by his own. Check. Ok. I'm REALLY starting to get you now.
    This will be the fourth time we've gone back and forth on this point, and the fourth time I've given you my answer. Much like the first time I said it, we are not discussing the Online Webster-Mirriam dictionary that you're incessantly quoting. We are discussing the fact that the industry-accepted definition of stun is not the definition Respawn is choosing to use, and the function of Arc Grenades is unclear because of that fact. Like I've said before, this is not me forcing my definition of the word stun down Respawns throats. I am pointing out the very relevant fact that no one else in the industry who knows what they're doing describes stun this way. RESPAWN IS THE ONLY ONE. Unless you plan to argue that Respawn is literally the only game in it's somehow incredibly niche new genre, then there's no meaningful argument as to why they should have a different definition than everyone else.
    To be entirely honest, it's getting very old responding to the same arguments over and over, and the quoting in this thread isn't very comfortable. If your future responses recycle your current argument again, I'm just going to put -see above- to save myself time.

    a) I am not citing Miriam Webster and even if I was, it would not invalidate my points which you have yet to adequately counter.

    b) The gaming industry does not have an "accepted" version of the word "stun". Obviously it DOES NOT otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're arguing that the way other developers are CORRECT in defining the word stun based off of NO OTHER LOGIC except that the developers YOU are citing all define it the SAME way (you are literally just using an argumentum ad populum known as the bandwagon fallacy).

    ____________________________________________________________________________________
    In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

    This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, vox populi,[2] and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), fickle crowd syndrome, and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________


    That is NOT a valid way to determine if they are using said definition of the word stun correctly and applying it accurately. People make up and use words out of context ALL the time. It is SO popular in fact, even a dictionary was created to show this phenomenon. It's called URBAN DICTIONARY. When you want to decide whether or not words are being use accurately and in the right context, you reference dictionaries and thesauruses which are derived from or written by LINGUISTS and LEXICOGRAPHERS. CONTEXT is just as relevant in deciding how a word is used. A banker may use the SAME words as another profession, such as an economist. However, they may use the word DIFFERENTLY, while still following the valid definitions, to suit the CONTEXT of their profession. Just like other games may be similar in nature but may use words DIFFERENTLY to suit the CONTEXT of their game and their SUB-GENRE. That does NOT make one definition that developers use supercede the definitions of other developers. The ONLY words that Developers have full artistic rights to make up in terms of terminology are words that are SPECIFIC to their genre.

    c) Respawn has not created a new niche genre of gaming. However, you're comparing games (that are all similar to each other) to a game (TItanfall 2) that is NOT similar to the games you listed in any capacity. The only thing they have in common is that they are FPSs but ALL FPSs are NOT the same and various FPSs have DIFFERENT ELEMENTS that differentiate each other from different games in the same category. Thats why there are:

    1. FPSs (Titanfall, CoD, Halo, BF: where you take nameless soldiers with no backstories into combat but they can be customized heavily to take on various tasks or make certain tasks easier)
    2. FPS RPGs (Borderlands: where you select named characters with backstories and unique characteristics on an adventure; said characters can be customized but their raw aesthetics [body type, head shape, facial features] cannot be changed [unless modded] and their abilities can be improved but not changed from their intended purpose)
    3. FPSs w/ RPG elements (Destiny: where you take a nameless characters that follows a static storyline that establishes your role in the game and what you must do to fit into said role OR you take a nameless characters that follows a fluid storyline where your decisions change the outcome of the game)
    4. FPSs w/ MOBA elements (Overwatch: where you select single unit characters to play objectives strategically in order to accomplish a goal)

    Note how these are ALL FPSs but all play DRASTICALLY different and have different SUB-GENRES.

    Use... your... brain before you type another reply because if you use the SAME fallacious argumentation methods to counter me again, I'm literally not responding.
    I am a Potato beyond Potatoes. I... am a Super Potato!
  • Katsuresu
    8 postsPosts: 10
    ProfArs wrote: »
    *Facedesk* *Facedesk* *Facedesk* You obviously don't know what a MOBA is either so I have to define that for you to. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA) is a sub-genre of the Real-Time Strategy genre. The gameplay is characterized by single unit hero (Hmmm... sounds like Overwatch) strategic combat between two small teams of players, each trying to destroy the opponent's base.
    Whoops. Looks like Titanfall 2 isn't a MOBA. Would you look at that?
    Whereas, Overwatch is an FPS with MOBA and RPG ELEMENTS.
    Overwatch doesn't have bases either, and everything else in that description is applicable to both Overwatch and TF2. So basically you've successfully proven that neither of the two games are MOBAs. Which still makes absolutely no difference, because the fact that all of the games I've listed, despite spanning a very wide genre base, all still manage to define stun the same way. This is more than enough proof enough that having a different sub-genre is not a good enough reason to define things differently. Not to mention the fact that in this thread you've spent several paragraphs trying to prove Overwatch is a MOBA, only to link a list of MOBAs that.. doesn't even include Overwatch xD
    If every single one of those games, in all their glorious genre diversity, can still manage to have the same definition of stun, regardless of the context in which the effect is applied, why can't TF2?
    Your entire list of the differences between Overwatch and Titanfall 2 is irrelevant, please keep your posts concise and centered around the threads topic. We're not discussing what sets Overwatch and Titanfall 2 apart, and the points above should explain to you why it doesn't matter.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    You CANNOT compare stuns from vastly different games without comparing THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY'RE USED IN.
    Again -see above-. Every game in my lists has a different genre, and a different method of applying the stun effect, yet all still share the same definition. This means the application and genre variation shouldn't make a difference.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Scissors are used to cut things apart. So is a knife. You don't see scissors being used at the dinner table to cut meat and you don't see knives being used in a preschool to cut paper. They are both used for the same PURPOSE but not used in the same WAY. This is why CONTEXT matters.
    You're still gravely confused. I will try again to explain. We are not discussing what scissors and knives (grenades and guns) are used for or how they work. If we were to apply your analogy, this would be a discussion about the definition of the word cut. Despite using different methods and objects to apply a cut to an object, the diner and the preschooler both still know what cut means. There's no slightly slow cousin in the corner who's tearing apart his steak and saying "I cut it I cut it!" because that's not what cut means. In the same manner, every game in the lists has a different method of applying the stun status effect, and a different intent behind the effects use. They all still understand what the industry defines a stun as though, and right now Respawn is the slow cousin for doing something very different and still trying to say they have a stun.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Are you ACTUALLY an ****? How far does your cognitive dissonance go? You just said we're comparing the DEFINITION of stuns between games but when I give you the LITERAL definition of stun, incapacitate, and immobilize, you say it IS NOT RELEVANT IN THE CONVERSATION.
    Vernacular -see above-.I'll also take this opportunity to say please keep your temper and insults to yourself, they don't belong here.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Wants Respawn to bandwagon other FPSs who have MOBA and RPG elements in them and don't play anything like Titanfall 2. Ok.
    Third time -see above- none of the other games in the list play like each other and still manage sharing a definition, so yes I want Respawn to bandwagon. Everyone else can do it, so is it really that much of a challenge?
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Caling the kettle black. Check. Has repeatedly ignored my points and say they're superceded by his own. Check. Ok. I'm REALLY starting to get you now.
    If you point out which bit you think I didn't read, I'll go ahead and read it again, and then I'll refute you again. And the entire point of an argument is to establish your point as fact over another, so I can't really avoid the second part, sorry.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    b) The gaming industry does not have an "accepted" version of the word "stun". Obviously it DOES NOT otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're arguing that the way other developers are CORRECT in defining the word stun based off of NO OTHER LOGIC except that the developers YOU are citing all define it the SAME way (you are literally just using an argumentum ad populum known as the bandwagon fallacy).
    Fourth time, -see above- vernacular. You're arguing that your refuting opinion, which is in-line with Titanfall 2's, holds as much clout as that of some of the biggest gaming titles literally ever. That's really arrogant. I'm not pushing my own opinion of what stun means here, I'm pushing the opinion of massive, reputable titles. Sure, bandwagon fallacy is a real thing. And yes, these developers probably formed a bandwagon after several of the larger titles defined stun a particular way. The problem is that you're seeing a bandwagon and automatically assuming that it must be wrong. The majority of the games I've listed are well-known and reputable. Many of them are the titans of their genre. ALL OF THEM HAVE THE SAME VERNACULAR DEFINITION OF STUN. Those games represent the gaming industry, and their collective player base, which uses their definition, makes up the majority of the gaming community in general. So if all of them sharing a definition of a status effect isn't the communities' accepted definition of that status effect, what on earth do you think is??
    To your wiki-paste of the bandwagon fallacy.. again, please be concise. Your messages are getting needlessly long.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    That is NOT a valid way to determine if they are using said definition of the word stun correctly and applying it accurately. People make up and use words out of context ALL the time.
    Fifth time, -see above- vernacular. Maybe just look up what vernacular means at this point, having referenced that we are discussing the vernacular three times, and having referenced things that have already been said five times, is kind of out of hand. Summarily, it's the unique language mannerisms of a particular group of people. So if it wasn't clear to start with, or any of the other four times, I will say it very clearly, in it's very own paragraph.
    The gaming community, as represented by the titles I have listed and other equally massive titles, and backed by their collective player base of hundreds of millions of players, defines stun differently than your dictionary and Titanfall do. A vernacular definition does not need logical backing, it is adopted by the people as correct and appropriate. You even mention this yourself further down when referring to Urban Dictionary. If the gaming community had their very own personal Urban Dictionary, the description under stun would be the definition that the majority uses. And the majority is not Titanfall 2.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Just like other games may be similar in nature but may use words DIFFERENTLY to suit the CONTEXT of their game and their SUB-GENRE. That does NOT make one definition that developers use supercede the definitions of other developers.
    Every single other game in my list has different genres/sub-genres, honestly whatever you want to do to separate them. Go for it! Make them as unique from each other as you possibly can. Spend a few solid hours showing me how they're all special snowflakes and all need their own definitions. Then go back.. and read the list again.. and notice how every single different genre and sub-genre and special snowflake game in that list.. STILL SHARES A SINGLE DEFINITION. They have overcome what you seem to believe is the insurmountable barrier of genre disparity. Being a different sub-genre does not matter.
    ProfArs wrote: »
    Note how these are ALL FPSs but all play DRASTICALLY different and have different SUB-GENRES.
    DOTA2, DnD, Overwatch, Battlefield Hardline.. You've been arguing that every because single one of these is a different genre, plays differently from each other, and has different methods of applying the stun status effect, they should have their own contextual definition. WHY DON'T THEY?? WHAT HAPPENED?? What crazy astronomical miracle brought all of these games together to come up with the exact same definition of stun? In the end, it's not a miracle. It's not even crazy. It's common freaking sense.

    TL;DR I don't particularly need further responses from you at this point. You've played enough devil's advocate for me to elaborate practically everything I could behind my argument. This will be more than enough for anyone with any sense.
  • SoullessSpirit
    1 postsPosts: 1
    edited December 2019
    Originally, I was just trying to find out why arc grenades slowed me down while I was trying to make a fast run in the Gauntlet, then I came across this argument. (I figured out that I was confused because I didn't read the description.) I made an account just so I could reply to this thread lmao.

    Katsuresu, I forget if you're the original creator of the thread at this point (I read pretty much the whole thing, skipping just a few parts) but I wholeheartedly agree with you that "stun" has the same in game definition across every game except for Titanfall 2. My point in case: http://gamingglossary.com/general-slang/stun/

    I and a friend of mine also are Overwatch players, and ProfArs, we both disagree with you. Overwatch and Titanfall 2 play similarly in the fact that [the multiplayer part] games both pit 2 teams against one another, ai vs player or pvp, and give both teams a goal: capture an objective, get as many kills as you can, or try to defend an objective. Both also have a FFA mode where you can play without worrying about a team. Sounds like you need to rethink your "definition" of a MOBA.

    And now... I raise this comment thread from the dead!!!

    ... kidding. This is gonna be my only post on this thread.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!